If people are pointing to the Son who died for our sins that we deserved, so that we might be right before God (2 Cor 5:21), then there is no issue. Bear one anothers burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. I was beginning to thing that all Christians were self-appointed judges. She doesnt owe you a personal response. At some point the quantity and quality of ex-evangelicals will outweigh the insiders, and evangelicalism will struggle surely supporting Trump is against its original principles and a sign of its death. And if you think Im exaggerating, recall John Pipers incendiary tweet Farewell, Rob Bell, written in response to Bells book Love Wins. Yes! One more question to you all who point fingers to those whose sin ( your word) is public, I want to ask- where is your contrition for shaming others? I love the teachings and have met all of the offenders you have mentioned. March 22: TP announces a discussion regarding full LGBT inclusion, a series of events where only pro-gay marriage experts and thought leaders like Dr. J. Brownson and Matthew Vines. Romans 1 is very very clear. And maybe that is good. This is the right thing according to Matthew 18, a teaching emphasized in the intentional-community churches Ive been part of since reaching adulthood but not in the evangelical ones I grew up with. It certainly wasnt with venom, as has been seen in Hatmakers case. I dont think so. 1BN-General. JM reports that membership at ANC has decreased by approximately 40% in four months. So perhaps Gods standards for sexuality are a little more flexible than you might maintain? When Jen Hatmaker wrote a raw and heartfelt blog about the pain shes been through over recent attacks and posted it on Good Friday, she was taken to task for daring to identify her pain with that of Christs. Maybe if someone doesnt want to be attacked for their seemingly unorthodox views, especially when one is a public figure, they should keep their views privately. To say that this was some kind of clue to the fact that people are born certain ways regarding homosexuality is twisting this verse. At the very least she deserves to be treated with dignity and respect. Seriously. Prior to October of 2016 traditional Christian marriage was the Hatmakers official position. And making comments such as Jesus doesnt speak to homosexuality is, well, a bit simplistic. Never about homosexuality. But its only Johns account that mentions the whip in 2:15. Important conversations, yes, but the Holy Spirit is the one that convicts and leads us into truth, not emotion, not anger, not verbal tirades. Maybe. And if we as a group stand together and say this we are wrong? I know that my Jesus has chosen and includes me. This is a really big deal to members of the Seventh Day Adventist Church. How bad does it have to get? Well, one things for certain, it will be far worse for you for raising the issue than it will for anyone in leadership thats doing the sinning. Re JH and accountability, its useful to look at the timeline of events that have led up to this. Please let me clarify something I just wrote above: Yes, homosexuals as well as anyone else should be allowed-ENCOURAGED-to attend church for the reasons above-to repent and get help, whatever the sin is, not just homosexuality. In our sins sexual and otherwise, God intervened! This is not about a personal sin or a personal doubt, this is about her clear rejection of an eternal truth. As I said before, EVERYONE deserves respect and for people to be treated bad by parents or anyone else is just wrong-that is not Christian either. I am sure she is a nice lady but you can not say something that is not biblical and then reiterate it and then think that people who are biblical in what what they believe will stand with you. Where did Jesus say anything about polluting the environment, or armed robbery? i agree completely. But my questions remain. You just dont arrive at any conclusion that a Biblical marriage covenant is anything other than what Jesus said it was a man and a woman. Science maybe? Youre all false teachers. Even if the person you have concerns about isnt known to you personally (a well-known identity like Jen, for example), a private message or email is a far more respectful (and therefore, more effective) means of exchanging views. They pioneered Restore Austin, connecting churches to local and global non-profits for the individual, collective, and social renewal of Austin and beyond. To me this is just one more instance of tolerance being a one way street. Matthew 10:34-39 NKJV. Maybe he chased them with a whip in love, perhaps? ), I did this once with Jared WIlson when he blog-quoted Doug Wilson on dominance and submission in the marriage bed. I am so tried WITH Vicky of the implication that those that support same-sex marriage are not serious about the Word of God. Sin has marred things, yes, but this is Gods original and only design of the marriage covenant. And just for reference, you cited Matthew 21:12 which you claimed to read again. 1,863 were here. I know it is hard to wrap your mind around it, but they took a procedural item and made it into a essential doctrine. We should know by now what Gods word is. Are you saying Jesus sinned by chasing the money changers out of the temple? You are mischaracterizing the way orthodox believers view Jen. Specialties. Our campus is more than just a building where we gather on Sundays. (In the latter, its called the Church Discipline passage & is about kicking people out. Ancient covenants were achieved when both parties passed through the blood of severed animals on either side. Please state facts, not falsehoods about what the Bible does or does not say. "Go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'. Sean Steckbeck: Your rhetoric is the stuff that drives my LGBT friends to suicide. It uses the term error for all other deviations. I dont know what it is that some of you have eaten but before commenting about a biblical issue perhaps it would serve you well to actually read the bible, brush up a little. These arguments always boil down to the same thing moving the fence, trying to let some sins be okay and castigating any Christian who holds to orthodoxy. 2:24. While people are free to express themselves many ways sexually, to do so outside of the marriage bed is against the message of Jesus. There wasnt any theological issues, no heresy. Jesus didnt say a lot of things. Reasoning is a heretical concept to them. In Sunday School, we dont really teach our kids about all the crazy stuff that happened in the Old Testament. If they say something a number of us disagree with, and do so publically, maybe we can disagree from beneath that is, with a profound sense of our own brokenness and need of Christs Grace-full touch? To them, the Scriptures are clear on this issue, and they think the rest of us are in error by treating Sunday like a Sabbath. It doesnt mean that homosexuals shouldnt be allowed in the church however. Gal. May we proclaim the Gospel boldly and may we love with our lives those around us. Brian Austin Green Amid Split From Megan Fox Celebrates Father's Day With His Sons. And Im not suggesting that religious leaders shouldnt debate and discuss their concerns when members (or fellow leaders) appear to contradict or challenge these beliefs. Im not. Grow up, Hatmaker. But the start of this topic was about error in teaching. We have to assume that means its a really big deal. Same with the others mentioned in the article. Specialties: Our dream is to have an increasingly positive impact on the South Austin Community. Your email address will not be published. http://www.sptsusa.org/not-my-kid/. During this time when many in the church are embracing a worldly view on sexuality and being influenced more by the opinions of the culture than by the Word of God, those who have the Word of God as a priority are genuinely concerned about syncretism in the church with Hollywood values and agenda. Deli studied . Law and love are often in conflict. The result is seldom effective, convincing, or pleasant and generally elicits a predictable backlash from the online masses. We cant receive grace from something we dont actually believe is a sin. I lay no claim whatever to being more healthy or loving than anyone else quite the opposite. Both sides!). It was put out publicly by the husband I think on their Facebook page that they felt they were led to believe that as long as a homosexual couple are faithful to one another the its fine just like a normal marriage. Any more specific position is an interpretation.. Call off the attack dogs. And Jesus in Matthew 19:4-5? I know that I was matching hyperbole with hyperbole. But those who are outside God judges. What about speaking in tongues? His standard is unflinching. His Awareness Matthew 18:15 seems the answer to me. Many first century believers did, and we dont have real solid evidence that it ever was meant to be retired. Somewhat ironic, and perhaps some of the fellow congregants should have been listening more closely. The gospel is the gospel. Communion Service and Homeless Community Grillout (Music by Miranda Dodson. But those who claim his nameIm not even sure I want to be identified with them anymore. It was never worth the dramaplus, there would likely always be another mom pushing a little Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle around. Im not saying we should ignore theology that seems to be pushing the boundaries of orthodoxy, but it seems there should be a more gentle attitude when engaging or pushing back on beliefs which concern us. Lets treat evangelical as a label controlled by individuals, not as a measure of fidelity. 15 If your brother sins, go and show him his fault when the two of you are alone. Winter 2016-2017: Elders who hold to the traditional view of marriage resign their position at ANC. These are conversations for Christians about Christian doctrine, also. The Gospel is good news but it cuts us all of us to the core. State desire to remain in a tension on the issue, however, no opposing historical views are presented, and most if not all elders holding to traditional views have left ANC since the interview. My only comment is that this pack attack syndrome is alive and well in the Baptist Association of NSW. Not a single Christian thinks that a repentant sinner should be excluded from the Grace of God that is a strawman argument created by less-than-honest people with an agenda. One form is that we are righteous and can get to heaven through out good deeds. Maybe pull your head out of your ass and realize that God would rather see people happy than have a tenth of the population relegated to loneliness and eventual rebellion against God. [] (The link to the original blog is here.) It has left me confused and weary. 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